Philosophy: Stop me if I'm too self-absorbed, but...
I was talking with a friend at work about religion this evening. I was mostly listening, actually - I think I'm learning how to listen more than talk, a skill of which I was (am) sorely in need. But I still haven't learned how to totally concentrate on what people are saying instead of thinking my own thoughts.
I care a lot about what people think about me. I think a lot about it. I talk about myself so I can judge other people's reactions; I "gossip" about other people so I can hear it come back about me. I like hearing good things about myself, but what I want to hear even more are valid criticisms - things that are true that I can fix. I don't have any illusions that I could every be perfect, but I want to try as hard as I can. Even more than that, it makes me happy to know that I am making other people happy - that I am activly increasing their level of pleasure, or, failing that, not causing them trouble.
But I'm learning to understand that this position - trying to make people happy - is fundamentally flawed, in that most people are most pleased by a person who is self-confident, self-directed, and unlikely to change much about themselves to make other happier. Of course, a lot of people with those characteristics are just jerks or bastards, but a lot of spectrums are circle.
The reason this is important is that to me it is evidence against a religion/purpose-driven existance. God created us to enjoy sex so that we would want to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. God created with a God-sized hole so we'd search Him out. Why did God create us to respond favorably to people exhibit self-love before other-love? I think because religion isn't the purpose of our lives. It's a hobby.
posted by Wray Davis @ 10:32 PM
8 comments
8 Comments:
hmm i don't get it. could it be that we're attracted to people that aren't 'needy'. i must say i don't categorize you as needy by any means, but people who are self confident and are content with themselves seem to not be needy.
i also think you might be in the minority in the desire for constructive criticism. maybe it's just me, but i like to pretend everything is fine with me. i have a really hard time being criticized. i know that's kinda dumb, but it is what it is...where was i going...oh yes. most people that are wanting to 'change for people' are much more needy, doing it so they'll feel loved. not trying to be a better person, but trying to get the attention they're seeking from a particular other person.
maybe.
but i do tend to think a lot of religion is a hobby. i guess i just don't see that as evidence against deity.
wait, maybe i should ask what you mean by hobby? and by religion/purpose driven life?
Well, I don't think it's evidence against a deity. I don't think that at all. I do think it's evidence against life having a purpose along the lines of becoming more like an all-loving deity.
And while I wasn't trying to claim to be an example of a very loving human, I think what I was trying to say is that in general people are more attracted to those who are aloof than loving. It may be something particular to our culture, because it may be linked to the desire for power or rising in a heirarchy (i.e. we like those who appear to be our superiors more than those who appear to be our peers).
As far as "religion as a hobby" goes, I'm coming to the conclusion that the real purpose in life is procreation and hierarchical growth (becoming something more than what you were before), but that being good and moral or finding out the truth about God are pastimes, not requirements. I do not in ANY way mean to imply that I think that being good and moral and finding out the truth about God are unimportant, or not necessary for the good of society. But I don't think they're part of the purpose of life.
I know this isn't really your point, but it seems relevant to note that according to evolutionary theory, we are "programmed" to be attracted to confident/"superior" people because in survival of the fitest uber-fit mates are the best kind of mates, and I suppose "superior" friends don't hurt a body's chances either.
Some argue that evolution is God's design. So I suppose that aspect of such a design would lend to being "fruitful."
On another note, I think you and I share that inherent desire to please others. I also have begun to learn that people are most attracted to confidence. Mark says I'm just learning how to be a big sister to others (since I've mostly had practice at the little sister thing). Anyway, as your little sister, I can honestly say that you've got the confidence thing down. Perhaps you're faking it, but if that's the case, I'd say you're an excellent faker.
yes, i did put those words in your mouth didn't i?
I think you boiled it down pretty well, Anne. I guess the core of my point is that my observations support evolution as being the "purpose" of life rather than being more Godly, at least so far as one might expect innate desires in people to reflect their purpose.
The rub is that I think I'm a little unusual in that my innate desires have been toward being more Godly (not that I can claim to be very successful) rather than evolutionary. And I think I'm discovering that this is at the root of many of my misassumptions and misunderstandings about relationships and other people.
Sarah - I don't think you put any words in my mouth. I didn't feel that way, anyway. :)
I hope it's okay to be straight forward in this conversation...I just think it's full of such interesting points and thoughts (it has already caused quite a bit of discussion here in Baltimore).. Anyway:
I wanted to challenge your use of the word "godly," or more acurately the phrase "to be godly."
What causes you to attribute the characteristic/tendency of wanting others to be "happy" to a sense of godliness? What I mean is, I'm not sure that God can be well described as a being who wants everyone to be happy. (I'm not quite sure it's even healthy for humans to only be happy all the time.)
That leads me to ask, is there another character option...a third besides the self-lover and the godly? One that better explains your inherent desire to see (or make) others happy?
That's definitely a reasonable point/question/observation. I was using "Godly" in the non-specific Christian sense - basically love God, love others, "no greater love has one man for another..." - God is love.
So, if I'm seeking to love other people, what better way to do it than make them happy? And of course I don't mean a temporary, fleeting sort of happiness, but a deep, lasting, happiness of satisfaction.
That's why I chose the word "Godly". You might be able to use "altruistic", instead, but it's also perhaps too strong of a word. I'm open to replacement suggestions.
Post a Comment
<< Home